Curse

deadman_uk · May 11, 2007, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by drupal

That's everything? Don't know if I change my build.

Mend Condition has better recharge times but yes thats it.. take a look...

[skill]Mend Condition[/skill]

[skill]dismiss condition[/skill]

olly123 · May 11, 2007, 04:36 PM // 16:36

this is heven for a n00b monk , i sugest it should b stickied, like every one said remove Healing breeze/ mending.

also holy hast and healers boon wont work well imo as u dont really need 75% quicker spells?. id run a
[skill]Holy Haste[/skill][skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Infuse Health[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]( i h8 running it but u have to in pugs :P). ok ur only heals here r [skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill] [skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill] [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] and [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] i use Sig when im not under direct fire, and Dissmiss when i al/ LoD, i use dimiss cos ur b enchanted with HH so u gain the heal i tend to run about
9 Divine
12 healing
9 protection
i think with minor runes

holy veil is a preprot move, u u "preveil" some one who u think is a proraty target, liek ur self, b4 u get into a fight, when u gain a horrible hex doubble click the enchantment upkeep to remove it in 1/4 sec flat, it saves lossing 114hp casting smite hex to remove ur back fire witch has ben covered. the only hex removes witch can remove stacts r [skill]Divert Hexes[/skill] and [skill]Deny Hexes[/skill], ones a elite and one relies on recharging divine spells to b affective

[skill]Heal Party[/skill], is a lovley move, u cant h8 it, it seems a lot of energy but when facing a bit team pressure it save energy, its liek healing for orsiron's in one rathe rtan spend 40e spend 15, not hard to work out witch is better, another nice move is [skill]Healing Seed[/skill], cas tit on the person controling the aggro, normaly that squashie ele not the rock hard tank :P. and it saves u healing them and ppl around them for 10 secs whiel u focus on some one else

ZenRgy · May 11, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Run a Major healing and a Minor divine.

Drop Orison, replace with RoF
Drop WoH, replace with LoD
Drop Breeze, replace with Heal Other
Drop Mending, replace with Protective Spirit or Spirit Bond.
Drop Res Chant (in AB only)
Drop Vigorous Spirit, bring Glyph of Lesser Energy.
Drop Mend Condition, bring Dismiss Condition.
Drop Reverse Hex, bring Deny Hexes or Holy Veil.

Ayan · May 11, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

You misunderstood me, either that or I didn't explain well enough. I keep mending on me all the time, unless my energy is low (5-10). The amount of times that my energy is almost gone is rare, I usually never have to cancel Mending. You are making it sound like I am casting mending, then cancelling it all the time, wasting 10 energy each time... that is not true.

If I ever have to cancel mending, it is so my energy can regenerate faster to keep up the needs of my allies. When fighting stops, I recast mending and my energy will regenerate again while we are moving to the next group of enemies.

You are forgetting one thing. Let's say I am attacked by an enemy, I am losing health, so I run away (kite). With mending, I am gaining +4 health all the time but like you said with Orison of Healing, I would gain much more. HOWEVER, how can I use Orison of Healing while I am running from an enemy? Mending is automatic, Orison of Healing and other related skills are not. To cast Orison of Healing, I have to stop running and then use it, by the time I do that, my health would be even lower than it originally was because the enemy is attacking me all the time. This is why I like Mending but I have taken it out of my skillbar.

It doesn't make it a more efficient skill. Mending is a monk skill, but it shouldnt be used for monks. You don't make use of your Divine Favor at all. I know what you are saying, I understand it just fine, it doesn't make it any more effective. Sure you can run while being healed, but you can also stop for 1 second and heal yourself, only takes 3/4th of a second, and if that's an issue still, you might want to use holy haste.

Quote:

You are right when you say a lot of health goes to waste because the target might be at full health, but at 5 energy cost, a fast recharge time PLUS the 30 second duration and the large amount of health it heals.... it is all worth it. 5 energy is nothing when the benefits are this good.

It takes 4 seconds to recharge. I can buff an entire party of 8 people in 30 seconds, which gives me peace of mind. With my scar eater, my spells often recharge in half the time which enables me to cast vigorous spirit to other allies faster. Each buff lasts 30 seconds, and that helps aid me when healing.

I rarely come into contact with a tank. In AB and in PVE, I don't often come into contact with tanks. Yes healing seed is preferred over vigorous spirit in this example but for AB and general PVE, vigorous spirit is superior in my opinion. I used healing seed today in AB, and it was useless for me. I cast it on an ally, and that's it, I can't cast it again on another ally because it takes so long to recharge. It takes 2 seconds to cast and for what? 10 seconds worth of use?

Vigorous Spirit
===========

Cost = 5 energy
Casting time = 1 second
Duration = 30 seconds
Recharge time = 4 seconds
Heals = 17 health everytime ally attacks or uses a spell

Healing Seed
===========

Cost = 10 energy
Casting time = 2 second
Duration = 10 seconds
Recharge time = 25 seconds
Heals = 25 health everytime ally takes damage

I look at those stats and think back to my experience with both skills and Vigorous Spirit wins most of the time.

Healing Seed is a PvE skill, it's a cast and forget skill that ensures that you target can take a lot of aggro without dying. Vig Spirit is a skill that maintains health. In PvE, not all that useful but it has its uses in PvP. It's merely decent, really, as what it actualy heals is normally covered by heal party. For PvP I would probably put in Signet of Rejuvenation for a free of cost 150 heal.

Quote:

I am a fan of healing touch but I have to look at this way. When healing myself, Healing Touch is superior to Orison of Healing but it only has 1 use... myself. 9 times out of 10, I am not going to use this skill on an ally, I have to touch them, which means getting close to them, which means increasing the chances of me taking damage or dying.

With Orison of Healing, I can heal myself AND my allies at distance. Sure it doesn't double the health you get from divine favour but it has multiple uses, and that for me outclasses Healing Touch.

You don't use mend condition to remove hexes either, right? Every skills has its uses, you already should have 2-3 powerful skill that heal others, you even devoted your elite to it. Your job as a healing monk is to deal with single target spikes and group healing. For single target spikes, Dwaynas/WoH/Sig of Rejuv is enough for the entire party (AOE damage) you should use GoLE+Heal Party. Granted, Orison isn't half bad, there were far worse things on your skillbar. But if you already devote everything on your skillbar to healing others, then it really does not hurt to have a powerful self heal.

Quote:

So for Smite Hex, I have to wait 12 seconds for me to reuse it? Let's say my whole party has hexes on them, I can't afford to wait 12 seconds each time I want to remove a hex. OK so Reverse Hex only recharges 2 seconds faster but with the extra protection it gives allies, I rate it slightly better than Smite Hex.

However now you have explained to me how to use Holy Veil, this sounds rather good, so I will have a go at implementing that into my skillbar in PVP matches.

Holy Veil, Deny Hexes and Smite Hex are both in all ways superior to Reverse Hex if you don't have points in protection. The mana cost kills it, even with a lot of points in protection... it's just not worth it.. I wouldnt put it on a protection bar either.

Lurid · May 11, 2007, 07:08 PM // 19:08

Remember, this is PvE, and for the most part enemies don't chase you too much. If you're getting targeted alot try not being so close to the front lines. Personally I greatly prefer Protection Prayers to Healing Prayers.

Age · May 11, 2007, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted bydeadman _uk
For those who say use Holy Haste, I will experiment with this, it sounds good but with healer's boon, I would have no use for this. I have to buy Holy Haste first, I don't have it.

You might not want to use Healer Boon with LoD as it is an elite there for you will need Holy Haste andd you can get this from the heros skill trainer in Kodash Bazaar.There are times you won't be running Healers Boon.I will suggest one other thing use if you can all minors but if you want a superior don't use a major and don't use those runes in AB all minors.In PvP all Monks use minors.The AI can detect your heal points and in AB you can be taken out easy with low health just with a Assassin coming up to yu or even a touchie.

Get Holy Haste anyway.

deadman_uk · May 12, 2007, 10:34 AM // 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayan

I understand it just fine, it doesn't make it any more effective. Sure you can run while being healed, but you can also stop for 1 second and heal yourself, only takes 3/4th of a second

3/4 second to stop running, activate a healing skill like Orison of Healing, then start running again? It takes a little longer than that. Activating Orison of Healing alone takes 1 second and that's without the 1/4 second to stop and 1/4 second to go again. It's going to take approx 1 and a half seconds to heal yourself with Orison while running from an attacker. You should know that someone like an Assassin can do a hell of a lot of damage in 1 and a half seconds... surely a lot more than what Orison heals for. But yes, Holy Haste would help a lot here, so I will be looking into that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayan

Healing Seed is a PvE skill, it's a cast and forget skill that ensures that you target can take a lot of aggro without dying. Vig Spirit is a skill that maintains health. In PvE, not all that useful but it has its uses in PvP

Healing Seed in my opinion is not a cast and forget skill. It only lasts 10 seconds and I can only buff one person in that amount of time. Vigorous Spirit in my opinion is a cast and forget skill. I was using it yesterday in the Abaddon's Mouth misson on the fire islands. We had 4 warriors, an archer and 2 necros. I was using it on the warrirors and archer all the time. I was spamming it out. It takes 4 seconds to recharge when used, by the time it recharges, the 5 energy I spent casting it is recharged.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ayan

You don't use mend condition to remove hexes either, right? Every skills has its uses, you already should have 2-3 powerful skill that heal others, you even devoted your elite to it. Your job as a healing monk is to deal with single target spikes and group healing. For single target spikes, Dwaynas/WoH/Sig of Rejuv is enough for the entire party (AOE damage) you should use GoLE+Heal Party. Granted, Orison isn't half bad, there were far worse things on your skillbar. But if you already devote everything on your skillbar to healing others, then it really does not hurt to have a powerful self heal.

I agree with you, I will be showing everyone my new skills shortly and thanks olly123 for your helpful reply!

Productivity · May 12, 2007, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

Mend Condition has better recharge times but yes thats it.. take a look...

[skill]Mend Condition[/skill]

[skill]dismiss condition[/skill]

For higher specced prot builds, Dismiss also functions as a clutch heal when you need a red bar to go up and you have nothing else to throw because it heals on hitting an enchanted ally, not on removing the condition so you can throw it around and get the effect when there are no conditions.

olly123 · May 12, 2007, 01:35 PM // 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

3/4 second to stop running, activate a healing skill like Orison of Healing, then start running again? It takes a little longer than that. Activating Orison of Healing alone takes 1 second and that's without the 1/4 second to stop and 1/4 second to go again. It's going to take approx 1 and a half seconds to heal yourself with Orison while running from an attacker. You should know that someone like an Assassin can do a hell of a lot of damage in 1 and a half seconds... surely a lot more than what Orison heals for. But yes, Holy Haste would help a lot here, so I will be looking into that.

first off, i never run healing in PVP, and i find sins in PVE r crap so u shoudld take loads of dam form them. but use healign touch, i know its slef heal, and u can only heal u or that random necro next to u. but do u really need 8 skilsl to heal the rest of ur party?. with Healing touch its 1.25 secs saves .25 of a sec and is a big heal 60+80 odd with max 13 divine and 16 healing., a sin cant kill u in 1.25 secs only an ele boss can, but thats what PS is for

. mostly sins do 200dam then tele away while ur srting ur self out the rest of ur team is diing form the other members, i normaly run protection in PVP so i RoF my self and SH so sin does about 8 dam per attack, very nice

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

Healing Seed in my opinion is not a cast and forget skill. It only lasts 10 seconds and I can only buff one person in that amount of time. Vigorous Spirit in my opinion is a cast and forget skill. I was using it yesterday in the Abaddon's Mouth misson on the fire islands. We had 4 warriors, an archer and 2 necros. I was using it on the warrirors and archer all the time. I was spamming it out. It takes 4 seconds to recharge when used, by the time it recharges, the 5 energy I spent casting it is recharged.

yes i admit vigorous spirt is nice on rangers/warrios with quick fireing moves, but form ur team build i take it it was a bad pug, i na good pug, 1-2 warriors + any one else, u can palc eit on the warriro let him aggor and watch as his health goes up, it can also benifit a bunch of ppl. place it on them then stand near them, and ther eu have it as hes gettign hit ur also being healed for 28hp :P. its also nice when ur facing a group that held the aggor bad and an ele is getting pummleb, jsut fire it of on them and watch him keep himself alive

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

I agree with you, I will be showing everyone my new skills shortly and thanks olly123 for your helpful reply!

thanx i feel so plesed

mikez himself · May 12, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by olly123

this is heven for a n00b monk , i sugest it should b stickied, like every one said remove Healing breeze/ mending.

also holy hast and healers boon wont work well imo as u dont really need 75% quicker spells?. id run a
[skill]Holy Haste[/skill][skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Infuse Health[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Holy Veil[/skill][skill]Rebirth[/skill]( i h8 running it but u have to in pugs :P). ok ur only heals here r [skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill] [skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill] [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] and [skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill] i use Sig when im not under direct fire, and Dissmiss when i al/ LoD, i use dimiss cos ur b enchanted with HH so u gain the heal i tend to run about
9 Divine
12 healing
9 protection
i think with minor runes

drop signet of devotion for rejuvenation imo other than that, its pretty decent

deadman_uk · May 12, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

I've reduced the superior Divine Favour to a major, therefore gaining 40 additional health. I have equipped new skills also (I haven't been able to test all of the skills you people are recommending because I don't have them yet, so these skills could change again in the future when I unlock new ones)

PVE
[skill]Healing Touch[/skill][skill]Words of Comfort[/skill][skill]Ethereal Light[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Healing Seed[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Resurrection Chant[/skill]

PVP
[skill]Healing Touch[/skill][skill]Words of Comfort[/skill][skill]Ethereal Light[/skill][skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill][skill]Healing Seed[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Light of Deliverance[/skill][skill]Holy Haste[/skill]

Age · May 12, 2007, 06:48 PM // 18:48

If you have a Sin on you the best skill is [skill]Shield Bash[/skill] and if you plan on using[skill]Infuse Health[/skill] use[skill]Balanced Stance[/skill].That is what they use in the real PvP not AB and in GvG.

[skill]Words of Comfort[/skill] [skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill]

ZenRgy · May 12, 2007, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Drop ethereal, touch or words for either [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] or [skill]Spirit Bond[/skill] and [skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill]

I don't see why people like Words so much, doesn't seem that good.

deadman_uk · May 12, 2007, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

If you have a Sin on you the best skill is [skill]Shield Bash[/skill] and if you plan on using[skill]Infuse Health[/skill] use[skill]Balanced Stance[/skill].That is what they use in the real PvP not AB and in GvG.

[skill]Words of Comfort[/skill] [skill]Dwayna's Kiss[/skill]

I don't understand, what's a sin? Why are you showing me Warrior skills? I am a monk...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZenRgy

Drop ethereal, touch or words for either [skill]Protective Spirit[/skill] or [skill]Spirit Bond[/skill] and [skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill]

I don't see why people like Words so much, doesn't seem that good.

These skills are protection prayer related, my skills are for healing, not protection. I don't see what good a protection prayer skill would do, I have very little attributes in protection.

Age · May 12, 2007, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadman_uk

I don't understand, what's a sin? Why are you showing me Warrior skills? I am a monk...

These skills are protection prayer related, my skills are for healing, not protection. I don't see what good a protection prayer skill would do, I have very little attributes in protection.

What is a Sin a Sin is a Assassin. Why the Warrior skills because they are defensive skills if you have Sin on you just use Shield bash on them and when infusing use balanced stance.Why protection because it is far better to protect and negate the damage than heal it up after wards.There is one more thing learn how to kite as well there is a thread on it over at The Gladiator forum.

olly123 · May 12, 2007, 10:23 PM // 22:23

to learn to kite play doge ball, search it on wiki, it helsp loads

. also u need ahild for shild bash thats y i prefer deadly riptos, cos i have +5 e sword so and it deals dam, 60 in 9 tactics, and 120 with frenzy :P u got a nice build for PVE, but PVP is meh, next thing is to learn to protect

, ill show u a buold 2 morrow ( if i remember) that has both heal/ proteectio, work wonders and teach u y RoF is the best non elite in game

ZenRgy · May 13, 2007, 02:15 AM // 02:15

Split your points into protection, healing and divine - running max divine is a fair waste, same for healing.

Pure healing bars in PvE and PvP are fairly garbage (moreso PvP), protection is so much better than healing it's crazy.

olly123 · May 13, 2007, 04:33 PM // 16:33

heres a little build, a lot of u will say its outdated and ttoaly inreliable afte rthe ners to insperation, but in PVE its still runable and heros run it very well

[skill]Contemplation of Purity[/skill][skill]Deny Hexes[/skill][skill]Divine Boon[/skill][skill]Signet of Devotion[/skill][skill]Dismiss Condition[/skill][skill]Reversal of Fortune[/skill][skill]Spirit Bond[/skill][skill]Mantra of Recall[/skill]. u can run [skill]Leech Signet[/skill] instead of [skill]Deny Hexes[/skill]

i normaly run soemthing like
insp- 9-12
prot 9-12
divine 9-12
i cant remeber exactly as i havent played this in ages but play about a bit, so long as u gain 20e form mantra of recall u should b fine

but make sure the other monk has a hex remove, this build has been nerfed but with practise its still very nice, u may run out of energy at first but it will teach u how to maintain ur energy very quickly :P. also u gain both the pros from healing as wel las form protection

moriz · May 15, 2007, 05:31 PM // 17:31

don't use major or superior runes. switch to all minor runes. you'll only gain about +6hp per heal at the cost of some huge -hp yourself. not worth it.

also, considering playing a heal/prot hybrid monk. healing prayers are absolute crap compared to prot. just as a example: reversal of fortune at 9 prot is much better than orison at 16 heal.

when in doubt, just as yourself this question: is it better to push red bars up after the damage, or prevent the red bars from going down in the first place?

here's a good general purpose hybrid monk for you to use:

mo/w
heal=12+1+1
prot=8+1
div=9+1
tac=5

light of deliverance {e}
divine spirit
reversal of fortune
infuse health
spirit bond/protective spirit
dismiss conditions
deny hex
disciplined stance

this build is good for both pvp and pve. monks should never carry rez anyways, no matter where you are playing. make sure to carry a 20% longer enchant duration set to get the most out of divine spirit.

LouAl · May 15, 2007, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

monks should never carry rez anyways, no matter where you are playing.

statements with "never" in them are almost never true...

If you are a sucky monk you should bring a res or your team is likely to /kick you after the wipe and your party goes back to the outpost. It is generally accepted in PvP for monks to run without res, but in PvE, you should probably have one to save yourself some headache/lost time.

If you are very experienced it is ok to not bring a res if you are playing with experienced players. This means that in a PuG you shold probably bring a res even if you are experienced so that you can potentially correct some of the idiotic acts of others.

Generally, bringing eight skills is rarely going to save the team if seven would not be able to do so. You can drop something to replace with res in most situations.

anyway...I agree with most people that running a hybrid is better than running pure heal. I also prefer using more prot and only one or two healing prayers (max, sometimes none).